My response to GITF debate, so I can link back to it, cuz it's long.

[timelord1]

d_r_meta asked the following question: It's time to talk The Girl in the Fireplace. Does this episode fit into the overall arc of the series? How about the characterizations?

My answer follows. It's longer than I intended, so I wanted to put it behind a cut. Not knowing how to do that in a comment, I posted it here and will link back to it on the forum. :)


No, I do not think this story fits into the overall arc of the series. The Doctor acts completely out of character, and here are my specific examples for backup.

1 - He would not get that giddy star-struck over a girl that fast. It may have been a lifetime for MdP, but for the Doctor it was a matter of minutes. Intrigued, yes, but falling for her in a few minutes, when he's been so obviously slowly building up to admitting his feelings for Rose? That portrays him as very fickle and completely irresponsible. I say no to this.

2 - He would not leave Rose and Mickey to their own devices on a ship that he knows is patently dangerous just so he can go party with MdP. Again, irresponsible and completely out of character. No way! He would either bring them with him, or he would say thanks but no thanks to MdP. You cannot convince me otherwise. And then to be gone for hours without checking on them? They are his companions - he knows the ship is dangerous. He simply would not do this.

3 - Here's a point a lot of people might overlook because it's a throwaway line. When they ask why they can't pop into the ballroom with the TARDIS and save the day, his answer is "No, we're part of events now" - um. Let's discuss this point. As a writer (as most of y'all are if not all), you know sometimes you want to have a certain moment in a story, but the rest of the plot leads you in a direction where that moment might not make sense, so you force the action of the story to fit the setup for that moment, even if it means abandoning all logic of the established story to do so. Was the Doctor stupid enough to think that clockwork robots were okay in that period of history, but not the TARDIS? Absolutely not! The writer simply did not want to use the easy solution, because he was hoping for the dramatic ride-through-the-mirror sequence. The TARDIS could have gone there easily and they could have saved the day that way, but it wasn't what the writer wanted, so they dismissed the obvious, easiest option.

4 - The ride through the mirror. Going first back to point 2 in my list here, the Doctor would UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES abandon 2 companions on a lifeless spaceship in the middle of nowhere with no way of getting home. Sure they have the TARDIS, but do they know how to pilot it? Do they know how to do a single thing on that ship without his help? He left them there to get trapped in time, and he simply would not do that. Also, he's not going to separate himself so easily from the TARDIS for all time, is he? Even if you want to go with the writer's attempt to say that his relationship with Rose didn't matter that much (if he's so easily drawn away by MdP), his relationship with the TARDIS is paramount and he would not leave the ship behind so easily, either.

5 - Rose. After all this time we've come to love her as a strong woman who is not easily marginalized. Why, then, is she allowed to run along like a good little companion and SHE GOES ALONG WITH IT? She's just mumbling to Mickey about how slightly annoyed she is at the whole thing. Her character is just kind of a side note in this story, and that's not what Rose was ever intended to be in my opinion. AND, there's this weird parent/child thing going on between the Doctor and Rose that just doesn't make sense. One minute the Doctor is all "Run along now, children," which he would NEVER DO TO ROSE, and then the next Rose is chiding him like a naggy fishwife "Look what the cat dragged in, the Oncoming Storm", and then like a mother "You're not keeping the horse!" Their dynamic is off and weird and does not fit at all.

So, yeah, that was a bit of a long post. Sorry.

Comments

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

I'm probably gonna have things thrown at me, but despite the holes and mis-characterisation I actually liked this episode. It made a pretty good standalone and highlighted a forgotten character from history. I can see how he would have been fascinated with MdP (I think he mentioned her once or twice in Classic Who) but yes, on a dangerous ship that had wonky time, I can see where you object. On the one hadn, though, in a way he is showing great confidence in Rose and knows she'll take good care of Mickey.

I can also see why he wouldn't use the TARDIS. There are different times/timezones all over the ship, this could cause more problems when coming out of the vortex.

Whereas Moffat did a good job inserting the Doctor (history wise) in MdP's life, he also (unfortunately) proved the point that certain things can't be changed in Time.

It was a rather clumsy episode in many, many ways - though I think some of the zanier elements were highlighted to show how insane the whole situation was. But it was one that I enjoyed - not one of Moffat's best to be sure, but the effort was there. As always, though Moffat's name was on it, I'm sure it went through several hands and changes before hitting the actor's hands - and even one or two lines being changed can change the feel of the whole episode!

There were quite a few things that could have been/should have been tweaked to make it better though. But I will say one thing - his infatuation with MdP was just that...infatuation - and sadly he used it as he always does - to run. He was scared of his feelings for Rose and he tried to immerse himself in a relationship that couldn't go anywhere to prove to himself that he couldn't HAVE one...if that makes sense.

Sorry...you can throw tomatoes now, lol!

[timelord1.livejournal.com]

He was scared of his feelings for Rose and he tried to immerse himself in a relationship that couldn't go anywhere to prove to himself that he couldn't HAVE one...if that makes sense.

That makes a great deal of sense, actually. That makes it much more palatable to think of it that way. See, I throw nothing. :) Debate can often serve to improve perspective on both sides of an issue. :)

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

The Doctor often does foolish things (for such an old man) and his fear of love is something that has (and probably always will) bite him in the ass. Rose is one of the many companions he fell in love with, but one of the few he actually acknowledged that love to. She saved him from becoming a bad god - she saved him from himself...but it was hard to step over that line, knowing she had his heart and that she would go the way companions always go - and he will live on.

Very much so! I always believe in good debate. I just have some differing opinions on Who and I'm always afraid of getting stuff thrown at me, lol!

*HUGS*